milo
Sep 20, 11:21 AM
This must be a US-centric view. Here (UK) PVRs with twin Freeview (DTT) tuners and 80GB HDs are everywhere. And they are very cheap now (120 quid upwards).
I'm thinking of ditching my cable provider (NTL, I only get it for Sky One, which is just Simpsons repeats) and going with something like this:
http://www.topfield.co.uk/terrestrialequipment.htm
Apparently you can DL what you record to your Mac (USB). I suspect you'll then be able to play that on iTV.
Looks like a cool box, but still pretty expensive, $525 USD. And I assume not available in the USA. Anyone know what the cheapest PVR you can buy in the states is?
The only differences between a Mini and iTV are the connections on the back, better wireless speed and no DVD. Its pure the price and software that makes it a media device and not a computer.
And the fact that you can't use the iTV as a computer! The iPod can play audio and video like a mini can, does that make the iPod "a cut down mini" too?
If I have a mini, couldn't I use it as an iTV with frontrow? Why would I get an iTV when I can get a refirb mini for $200 more, when it can do more?
Because it's $200 more. And this is just the initial pricing, as time goes on the iTV will get cheaper faster than computers do.
I'm wondering why they couldn't/wouldn't just combine the mini and the iTV into a single unit. The mini's size could allow for a DVD slot/player/burner and maybe even allow for the Mac OS in the box, so you don't need another computer to stream your media from. In fact, I assumed that was what the Mini was ultimately destined for anyway.
Because it would be way more expensive than $200, with little chance of prices dropping much.
Since iTV most likely wont be a DVR device, I coughed up $700 today for a Sony DVR instead.
I am sure Apple has a brilliant plan for the iTV, but I fail to see it.
Well, the first step of the plan is to cost less than $700. :eek: At that price, the technology will never be anything more than a niche.
because everything on cable is available at itunes. your analogy is wrong.
He was talking about the future of iTunes/iTV. Who's to say that someday everything on cable won't be on iTunes?
I'm thinking of ditching my cable provider (NTL, I only get it for Sky One, which is just Simpsons repeats) and going with something like this:
http://www.topfield.co.uk/terrestrialequipment.htm
Apparently you can DL what you record to your Mac (USB). I suspect you'll then be able to play that on iTV.
Looks like a cool box, but still pretty expensive, $525 USD. And I assume not available in the USA. Anyone know what the cheapest PVR you can buy in the states is?
The only differences between a Mini and iTV are the connections on the back, better wireless speed and no DVD. Its pure the price and software that makes it a media device and not a computer.
And the fact that you can't use the iTV as a computer! The iPod can play audio and video like a mini can, does that make the iPod "a cut down mini" too?
If I have a mini, couldn't I use it as an iTV with frontrow? Why would I get an iTV when I can get a refirb mini for $200 more, when it can do more?
Because it's $200 more. And this is just the initial pricing, as time goes on the iTV will get cheaper faster than computers do.
I'm wondering why they couldn't/wouldn't just combine the mini and the iTV into a single unit. The mini's size could allow for a DVD slot/player/burner and maybe even allow for the Mac OS in the box, so you don't need another computer to stream your media from. In fact, I assumed that was what the Mini was ultimately destined for anyway.
Because it would be way more expensive than $200, with little chance of prices dropping much.
Since iTV most likely wont be a DVR device, I coughed up $700 today for a Sony DVR instead.
I am sure Apple has a brilliant plan for the iTV, but I fail to see it.
Well, the first step of the plan is to cost less than $700. :eek: At that price, the technology will never be anything more than a niche.
because everything on cable is available at itunes. your analogy is wrong.
He was talking about the future of iTunes/iTV. Who's to say that someday everything on cable won't be on iTunes?
spaceballl
Mar 18, 09:25 AM
To be honest, I'm not too upset by this. I've used an iPhone for tethering via jailbreak long before the official support came. I did that fully knowing that I was breaking the rules, and that ATT might mess with me, but they didn't offer an official plan so I knew the risks. I still jailbreak my phone and use MyWi, but I pay for an official tethering plan so I'm not breaking the rules.
samcraig
Mar 18, 11:11 AM
AT&T MUST fix their accounting before they have a moral leg to stand on to pull a stunt like this.
For those of you complaining about the theft of service, how about the theft of money from the customer by AT&T?
Two separate issues.
ATT can prove if you're tethering or not. This has nothing to do with how much data you are or are not using.
Even if you use 1KB via tether and you aren't on their plan - they have a leg to stand on.
For those of you complaining about the theft of service, how about the theft of money from the customer by AT&T?
Two separate issues.
ATT can prove if you're tethering or not. This has nothing to do with how much data you are or are not using.
Even if you use 1KB via tether and you aren't on their plan - they have a leg to stand on.
NT1440
Mar 16, 01:48 PM
I was talking about the invention of hydro?
Regarding nuclear subsidization, I'm quite aware of this fact. We subsidize ethanol, we subsidize oil, we subsidize nuclear, we subsidize wind, we subsidize solar. Seems kind of pointless, doesn't it? It's like playing roulette and putting a chip on every single number.
Naturally we should just hedge our bets on one right? :confused:
Here in reality, its pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that in the interim until renewables are able to take the stage as our top producers we have to go with an "all in" approach. There is no silver bullet at this point in time.
Regarding nuclear subsidization, I'm quite aware of this fact. We subsidize ethanol, we subsidize oil, we subsidize nuclear, we subsidize wind, we subsidize solar. Seems kind of pointless, doesn't it? It's like playing roulette and putting a chip on every single number.
Naturally we should just hedge our bets on one right? :confused:
Here in reality, its pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that in the interim until renewables are able to take the stage as our top producers we have to go with an "all in" approach. There is no silver bullet at this point in time.
go4koko
May 31, 06:53 PM
Ok...so here's the deal...
I've been on AT&T for over a year now, using an iPhone 3g. No dropped calls at all, 5 bars everywhere in my area, and full 3G coverage.
Verizon has 0 bars in my area, and their phones are crap...
Way to go AT&T!
WTF? Why do people buy phones without knowing if they work in their areas first? If I went by what people say on these boards, I'd have bought a Verizon phone that wouldn't work in my area, and on a phone that's crap....
STOP MAKING PURCHASING DECISIONS BASED ON OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS!
:apple: How would you go about finding out if a phone or carrier service worked in a certain area if you didn't consult other people or credible sources? Wouldn't you have to make a decision based on 'Other Peoples Opinions' in order to find out? If you know Verizon service yields 0 bars in your area do you know this as a previous Verizon service customer, consult someone directly or take the 'Opinion' of the AT&T salesman?
Are you so inflexible as to believe no one in the universe has occasional connection problems? Do you live under an AT&T tower and never stray far from it? I'm looking to get an iPhone in 2 months and I hope it really is as reliable as you describe.
I've been on AT&T for over a year now, using an iPhone 3g. No dropped calls at all, 5 bars everywhere in my area, and full 3G coverage.
Verizon has 0 bars in my area, and their phones are crap...
Way to go AT&T!
WTF? Why do people buy phones without knowing if they work in their areas first? If I went by what people say on these boards, I'd have bought a Verizon phone that wouldn't work in my area, and on a phone that's crap....
STOP MAKING PURCHASING DECISIONS BASED ON OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS!
:apple: How would you go about finding out if a phone or carrier service worked in a certain area if you didn't consult other people or credible sources? Wouldn't you have to make a decision based on 'Other Peoples Opinions' in order to find out? If you know Verizon service yields 0 bars in your area do you know this as a previous Verizon service customer, consult someone directly or take the 'Opinion' of the AT&T salesman?
Are you so inflexible as to believe no one in the universe has occasional connection problems? Do you live under an AT&T tower and never stray far from it? I'm looking to get an iPhone in 2 months and I hope it really is as reliable as you describe.
soLoredd
Mar 18, 06:07 AM
I don't think it is a bad thing for AT+T to prevent people from tethering to a laptop on an unlimited cell phone plan. Those people are just taking advantage of the system, and wasting bandwidth that the rest of us could use.
As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.
Agreed.
What I do find AT&T at fault for (and other carriers, for that matter) is this seperate tethering charge. I have unlimited data on my iPhone plan, and while I'm not crazy to think I should have that for tethering as well, I do think if I make the switch to a capped plan I should be able to use that for ALL data to my phone.
As far as I'm concerned it is the same as going to an all you can eat restaurant and sharing your food between two people, while only paying for one. It isn't a serious crime, but it is stealing, and you know that if you get caught you will have to stop. I'm not going to feel bad for these people that are using 5+GB per month.
Agreed.
What I do find AT&T at fault for (and other carriers, for that matter) is this seperate tethering charge. I have unlimited data on my iPhone plan, and while I'm not crazy to think I should have that for tethering as well, I do think if I make the switch to a capped plan I should be able to use that for ALL data to my phone.
Denarius
Mar 15, 09:56 PM
I still regard nuclear fission as the best option among fossil fuel technologies to get us over the hump until alternative energy sources can cover 100% of demand and/or nuclear fusion is ready for commercial use. I still would prefer us to phase out coal, oil, gas and trash burning plants before we shut down our nuclear reactors as they have better carbon footprints and the mining of their fuel is overall less damaging than coal strip mining. Do we need to quickly move away from Gen I and II technology and get to at least III+ technology for all of our reactors, absolutely, but exiting nuclear fission technology at least in the short to midterm seems like a poor choice to me.
Cheers,
Ahmed
Agreed, nuclear Fusion's the best hope in the long term although I'm sure many will believe that's evil as well because of the word 'nuclear' being there.
Little bit of trivia, did you know that hospital CAT scanners were originally called NMR scanners (nuclear magnetic resonance), but they changed the name because it scared people? Why hasn't anybody coined the word 'nuclearphobe' yet :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Ahmed
Agreed, nuclear Fusion's the best hope in the long term although I'm sure many will believe that's evil as well because of the word 'nuclear' being there.
Little bit of trivia, did you know that hospital CAT scanners were originally called NMR scanners (nuclear magnetic resonance), but they changed the name because it scared people? Why hasn't anybody coined the word 'nuclearphobe' yet :rolleyes:
GeekLawyer
Apr 15, 09:50 AM
Fewer and fewer each year.Yep, this hate is dying off. Demographics are destiny. Younger people, writ large, are not homophobic or anti-gay.
KnightWRX
May 2, 09:05 AM
WOW! Malware that requires the user to do a Google search, then download, and install. For all of this, it asks for your credit card number.
How can we ever defend our computers against such a diabolical threat?!
Hum, download and install are automatic. Good thing I don't use Safari.
As I understand it, Safari will open the zip file since it's a "safe" download. But that doesn't mean it'll execute the code within that zip file, so how is this malware executing without user permission?
I haven't seen this malware first hand, but a zip file can be made with absolute paths, making "unzipping" the file put everything where it needs to be to start up automatically on next log in/reboot.
Who's the brainiac who made zip files "safe" ?
so much for the no malware on macs myth :D
funny how the apple fanboys are getting all defensive :rolleyes:
No viruses on the Mac. There's been malware for OS X for quite a while now.
How can we ever defend our computers against such a diabolical threat?!
Hum, download and install are automatic. Good thing I don't use Safari.
As I understand it, Safari will open the zip file since it's a "safe" download. But that doesn't mean it'll execute the code within that zip file, so how is this malware executing without user permission?
I haven't seen this malware first hand, but a zip file can be made with absolute paths, making "unzipping" the file put everything where it needs to be to start up automatically on next log in/reboot.
Who's the brainiac who made zip files "safe" ?
so much for the no malware on macs myth :D
funny how the apple fanboys are getting all defensive :rolleyes:
No viruses on the Mac. There's been malware for OS X for quite a while now.
milo
Sep 20, 11:39 AM
With FrontRow on the Mini it can act as a hub for the other computers in the network and play the movies via iTunes streaming.
Sure. And you're spending more to have two computers instead of one computer and one cheaper, simpler box.
1) No TV tuner support (eyeTV hybrid no go on iTV). eyeTV on another computer defeats the purpose of pausing live TV.
If they can make it work, I don't see any reason why eyeTV live TV couldn't be paused via the iTV remote. There's no technical reason it wouldn't be possible, they'd just have to implement it. Same with buying iTunes content direct from iTV, they could certainly add the feature if they wanted to.
But nobody will be downloading HD for iTV, so that's a moot point. From what I've seen so far it actually does less than other media streamers.
That's an assumption on your part. How do you know that iTunes won't include HD content in the future? How do you know that people won't be able to stream HD content from other sources?
?? TiVo will provide you a PVR that burns DVDs, has a tuner and hard drive, and wirelessly connects to your macintosh and plays your photo library and itunes for $300 plus you have to buy a usb network reciever for like $25.
So it's basically the same thing except for the videos which of course didn't exist when tivo adopted the technology, and since they'll play your photos they'll probalby adopt the videos too. I think I'll just hold out for my TiVo to do the same thing PLUS be a PVR and DVD burner.
Link? And is the $300 buying the box, or is that a montly fee for some amount of time? Where is the mac support, the tivo site says they don't support it?
Sure. And you're spending more to have two computers instead of one computer and one cheaper, simpler box.
1) No TV tuner support (eyeTV hybrid no go on iTV). eyeTV on another computer defeats the purpose of pausing live TV.
If they can make it work, I don't see any reason why eyeTV live TV couldn't be paused via the iTV remote. There's no technical reason it wouldn't be possible, they'd just have to implement it. Same with buying iTunes content direct from iTV, they could certainly add the feature if they wanted to.
But nobody will be downloading HD for iTV, so that's a moot point. From what I've seen so far it actually does less than other media streamers.
That's an assumption on your part. How do you know that iTunes won't include HD content in the future? How do you know that people won't be able to stream HD content from other sources?
?? TiVo will provide you a PVR that burns DVDs, has a tuner and hard drive, and wirelessly connects to your macintosh and plays your photo library and itunes for $300 plus you have to buy a usb network reciever for like $25.
So it's basically the same thing except for the videos which of course didn't exist when tivo adopted the technology, and since they'll play your photos they'll probalby adopt the videos too. I think I'll just hold out for my TiVo to do the same thing PLUS be a PVR and DVD burner.
Link? And is the $300 buying the box, or is that a montly fee for some amount of time? Where is the mac support, the tivo site says they don't support it?
CalBoy
Apr 22, 08:41 PM
Because the concept of earth and life just happening to explode into existence from nothing comes from logic and reason?
Interesting...
You are confusing the Big Bang Theory with current biochemical theories regarding primitive life with planetary formation. They are all independent working models of how events have unfolded in the past.
The only thing they happen to have in common is stand in the way of stubborn beliefs.
Interesting...
You are confusing the Big Bang Theory with current biochemical theories regarding primitive life with planetary formation. They are all independent working models of how events have unfolded in the past.
The only thing they happen to have in common is stand in the way of stubborn beliefs.
Piggie
Apr 28, 11:18 AM
Companies that "ship" stuff that people don't buy do not stay in business very long. Therefore, "shipping" is a good enough estimate 99% of the time. The other 1% is quickly identified and purged from the economy.
Does this rule apply to non Apple computers and tablets?
I recall only a short time ago when non Apple companies where posting numbers, people on these forums were ripping the figures to shreds as they said they were not sold items but only shipped items.
Do we all agree the same rules for everyone :)
Does this rule apply to non Apple computers and tablets?
I recall only a short time ago when non Apple companies where posting numbers, people on these forums were ripping the figures to shreds as they said they were not sold items but only shipped items.
Do we all agree the same rules for everyone :)
wdogmedia
Aug 29, 02:54 PM
stem cells is not altering the original genetical code. HUGE difference
The point is that Greenpeace opposes ALL R&D into GM foods, just as G.W. opposes ALL R&D into stem cell research, including research to use stem cells w/o harming the fetus.
The point is that Greenpeace opposes ALL R&D into GM foods, just as G.W. opposes ALL R&D into stem cell research, including research to use stem cells w/o harming the fetus.
Doctor Q
Apr 8, 10:50 PM
Was the MacNN headline "Apple Poaching Gaming PR Execs from Activision and Nintendo?" the true story? It would give a very different impression if the headline had been "PR Execs Abandoning Activision and Nintendo for Apple?" And in fact the article says that Grange "jumped ship".
Were they pushed or pulled?
Were they pushed or pulled?
timswim78
Sep 12, 07:35 PM
I could not disagree more.
It exceeds the xBox 360 due to the inclusion of HDMI.
- XBOX might be getting HDMI, or maybe not.
It will play DVD's, for sure, through the desktop server
- Not very convenient to have to have a computer turned on to play DVD's. If your computer is in another room, changing DVD"s will be a real pain in the neck. It would be a whole lot simpler to just have a DVD drive in the unit.
It uses the superior FrontRow navigation system
- Superior to what? FrontRow has nothing on MCE's interface. I've used both, and MCE is better, IMO. (Of course, MCE allows one to record television.)
It has a cleaner appearance than xbox, no power brick, runs quieter and cooler
- No moving parts would make something quieter and cooler. However, this is not a standalone unit, and the need to run a server computer changes the quietness and coolness. I don't really want to look at computer or A/V equipment anyway.
Will not crash like the hot running xBox.
- And you know this from the test unit that Apple sent to you?
Will be prices slightly cheaper allowing for inclusion on multiple TV's throughout the home
- Cheaper than what? Or do you mean a quantity based discount?
It does not play games will work in Apple's favor as many parents don't want this feature for their children.
- So, these paretns should buy a networked DVD/Media player or a Media Center Extender. Are these the same parents that don't want their kids watching crappy TV, or is it OK for kids to watch horrible televsion programming as long as they don't play games?
Digital Cable and TV recording to Hard Disk are handled by the Media SERVER (desktop) using cheap and currently available 3rd party products -- watch for apple to bundle this in the coming year and one half.
- Sounds like a hodge-podged mess to me. If you really want simplicity, just buy a Media Center PC and one of the Windows Meda Extenders.
iTV is a winner for sure.
- I'll hold off judgement until I try one out for myself. (Actually, I probably won't try one. I only have on small TV in my house, and I only get over-the-air HDTV programming, no cable or sattelite.)
It exceeds the xBox 360 due to the inclusion of HDMI.
- XBOX might be getting HDMI, or maybe not.
It will play DVD's, for sure, through the desktop server
- Not very convenient to have to have a computer turned on to play DVD's. If your computer is in another room, changing DVD"s will be a real pain in the neck. It would be a whole lot simpler to just have a DVD drive in the unit.
It uses the superior FrontRow navigation system
- Superior to what? FrontRow has nothing on MCE's interface. I've used both, and MCE is better, IMO. (Of course, MCE allows one to record television.)
It has a cleaner appearance than xbox, no power brick, runs quieter and cooler
- No moving parts would make something quieter and cooler. However, this is not a standalone unit, and the need to run a server computer changes the quietness and coolness. I don't really want to look at computer or A/V equipment anyway.
Will not crash like the hot running xBox.
- And you know this from the test unit that Apple sent to you?
Will be prices slightly cheaper allowing for inclusion on multiple TV's throughout the home
- Cheaper than what? Or do you mean a quantity based discount?
It does not play games will work in Apple's favor as many parents don't want this feature for their children.
- So, these paretns should buy a networked DVD/Media player or a Media Center Extender. Are these the same parents that don't want their kids watching crappy TV, or is it OK for kids to watch horrible televsion programming as long as they don't play games?
Digital Cable and TV recording to Hard Disk are handled by the Media SERVER (desktop) using cheap and currently available 3rd party products -- watch for apple to bundle this in the coming year and one half.
- Sounds like a hodge-podged mess to me. If you really want simplicity, just buy a Media Center PC and one of the Windows Meda Extenders.
iTV is a winner for sure.
- I'll hold off judgement until I try one out for myself. (Actually, I probably won't try one. I only have on small TV in my house, and I only get over-the-air HDTV programming, no cable or sattelite.)
Stelph
Apr 21, 05:37 AM
I love the title simply because it reads like its discussing Steve Jobs' involvement in fragmenting Android :D
robbieduncan
Mar 13, 03:50 PM
None of the studies I have read proposing this, have suggested the sort of ecological impact you are implying. This is pure, unadulterated, BS.
Indeed. Some existing solar arrays are built on grazing land that is still productive grazing once the array is in place.
Indeed. Some existing solar arrays are built on grazing land that is still productive grazing once the array is in place.
UnixMac
Oct 10, 06:34 PM
my 500mhz MP did it in 87 seconds.
I am amazed however that a P4 can do it in 1/20 that time.... It almost says to me that there is a flaw in how software is coded. Can you use the Altivec to improve this?
I seem to recall that FP on the G4 was superior to PIII of double the MHz, so how can the P4 be THAT MUCH faster?
I am amazed however that a P4 can do it in 1/20 that time.... It almost says to me that there is a flaw in how software is coded. Can you use the Altivec to improve this?
I seem to recall that FP on the G4 was superior to PIII of double the MHz, so how can the P4 be THAT MUCH faster?
-aggie-
May 4, 11:39 AM
If you Google "Mac Defender" you'll run across any number of sites that will tell you the same thing: Don't install it and remove it from your system. You don't need to be a MR forums reader to find that out. After all, the information about the threat didn't originate from this site, and neither did the solution.
WTF? MacRumors is not the source of all knowledge?? You're talking crazy, right?
WTF? MacRumors is not the source of all knowledge?? You're talking crazy, right?
brianus
Sep 26, 12:47 PM
Tigerton is after Clovertown. It's 4 cores in a one dye package instead of 4 cores in two dyes in one package. But I'm not gonna wait for Tigerrton which I believe is scheduled for production in Spring 2007. Dual Clovertown is my next Mac for sure.
I'm aware of Tigerton, but I was told in another thread that it's not a true successor to Clovertown and could not possibly be used in a Mac Pro. That being the case, is Clovertown it until -- Harpertown?
I'm aware of Tigerton, but I was told in another thread that it's not a true successor to Clovertown and could not possibly be used in a Mac Pro. That being the case, is Clovertown it until -- Harpertown?
faroZ06
May 2, 10:21 PM
Just another reason for people to use Firefox. Safari is bloated in my opinion anyways.
But regardless, this is hardly a threat and I don't see what the big deal over it is. From what I can tell, this malware is downloaded on user error. Not only do you have to have Safari open "safe" files, but you also have to visit the site in order to download it, which by now I assume Safari will warn you about anyways.
If this is the result of computer geniuses trying their attempt at a Mac virus, then I'm not worried about the future security of my Mac at all.
In addition, you have to click through an installer and enter your password then enter your credit card :rolleyes:
But regardless, this is hardly a threat and I don't see what the big deal over it is. From what I can tell, this malware is downloaded on user error. Not only do you have to have Safari open "safe" files, but you also have to visit the site in order to download it, which by now I assume Safari will warn you about anyways.
If this is the result of computer geniuses trying their attempt at a Mac virus, then I'm not worried about the future security of my Mac at all.
In addition, you have to click through an installer and enter your password then enter your credit card :rolleyes:
FieldingMellish
Jun 22, 09:29 PM
I don't get dropped calls at Verizon, but will occasionally receive a voice mail message someone left for me weeks ago. Also, just at my house, Verizon cell service fades in and out. Hello, AT&T and iPhone 4.
appleguy123
Apr 22, 09:39 PM
OP, to back up your hypothesis we would need real percentages of atheists in the MacRumors community and the community at large.
Perhaps the anonymity afforded one on the internets affects how one answers (just like the 16 year old hottie is actually a 45 year old cop).
Perhaps education/enlightenment, long considered the anathema of religion, is at play.
Perhaps a younger demographic here is a factor.
But first, is there a higher percentage of atheists here?
According to the poll which I linked earlier (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1055916&highlight=), about 65% of us are atheist or agnostic.
Perhaps the anonymity afforded one on the internets affects how one answers (just like the 16 year old hottie is actually a 45 year old cop).
Perhaps education/enlightenment, long considered the anathema of religion, is at play.
Perhaps a younger demographic here is a factor.
But first, is there a higher percentage of atheists here?
According to the poll which I linked earlier (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1055916&highlight=), about 65% of us are atheist or agnostic.
skunk
Mar 11, 03:55 PM
2149: The Kyodo news agency is now citing a safety panel as saying that the radiation level inside one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant is 1,000 times higher than normal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
Looking hairier by the minute. :eek:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
Looking hairier by the minute. :eek:
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